Pitching sessions

[2ringer6]

Does anyone know what the breakdown will be for the pitching sessions? What days which classes will pitch?

[webmaster]

No, it isnt available till June,  but if you refer to last years information you will be pretty much in the ball park,  things dont change much when it comes to the schedule and most of that depends on the number of entries overall and in each division.
http://www.horseshoepitching.com/wrld_rpt_09.html

[Homer]

Be there early Monday morning planning to stay two weeks.  You'll be on time.  Your company and help will both be appreciated, you can't go wrong.

[moleman]

Kinda new at this. So like the SR mens (2009) its listed A to F. Does that mean 6 different classes? I don't know all the ways it is listed yet in the different groups.
Thanks

[fisherman]

Moleman, Go to world tournament coverage on the opening page then click on 09 coverage, then class results, this years layout should be very similer to that..Gool Luck..

[moleman]

Got it. Thanks!!!

[mogregg]

Do you think we might get a peek at the schedule here before it is mailed out Steve?

[webmaster]

ok gang,
here is the WT schedule,  you must download this file and then you can print it as need be,  this is being done in this manner to ensure that you have a copy of the schedule on your computer for a more permanent record.

read-em and weep 

http://www.horseshoepitching.com/cedarrapids/download.html

[cobbler]

I am looking over the schedule and am curious why there is no evening pitching on the last three days of the first week (Thurs, Fri and Sat).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the most likely time for spectators that week and probably the whole tournament is going to be those three evenings.  In years past, that was the time of the junior pitching and that seemed to draw a lot of spectators, didn't it?  What happened to that? Now we have nothing going on at that time.  What sense does that make?  Are we just giving up on trying for the the local crowd here?  How fair is that to the host and any local sponsors of the tournament?  With that kind of schedule, how are the hosting groups supposed to attract new sponsors?  It certainly isn't doing them any favors, that's for sure.

Plus, you have 7 AM pitching shifts on those days that could just as easily have been played at 8 PM, or if anything, an hour or two later start time since there is no evening shft... what would be wrong with that? I would think you'd have an easier time finding scorekeepers and judges for an 8 PM shift or a later morning start than you would for a 7 AM shift, wouldn't you?  It seems the pitching schedule is set up more for the convenience of the people running the tournament... the customers (players and spectators, that is) seem to take a back seat... bad business practices if you ask me.  No wonder the entries are dropping every year.  Seriously, these people are on vacation... who would want to have to get up at 5 AM for three days straight just to pitch horseshoes when they are on vacation?  Geeze, has anyone asked them if they like it?  Maybe the answer is coming through in the lower entries every year?

Anyone out there pitching in that early shift want to chime in here?  I am curious to know what you all think of it. 

Also, speaking of scorekeepers, is there any plan to fix the shortages we had last year?  I pitched in Mens B3 last year (an 8 PM shift) and had a shared scorekeeper for 13 of my 15 games... For a world tournament, that is just totally unacceptable.  Leaving the scorekeeping up to chance is just silly.  It delays the pitching horribly and it is extremely unprofessional.  It is pathetic to constantly badger the crowd over the P.A. trying to get people to keep score.  I am guessing that's a big turn-off to what little spectators there may be at the event. 

Geeze, someone please take the bull by the horns and contact some Cedar Rapids Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, local church youth groups... whatever it takes and get scorekeepers there, trained and ready to go for once.  That's what we do in Erie, PA for the Eastern Nationals and it absolutely makes a world of difference... Add it up... there will be more than $20,000 paid out in scorekeeping fees alone at this tournament... Now that kind of money could go a long way towards helping one of those groups with their annual fund raising, right?  Well, with that approach to this, how hard would it be to find one that will want to do this?  I think it's a no-brainer.

That's all I have for now... over and out.

[vicki]

Cobbler,
This is just an educated guess, but I believe the reason you see no shift scheduled late in the evening on the last 3 days of the first week is because there will be some Championship Divisions scheduled on some of those nights.  Those are point games and not shoe limit games.  Nobody knows how long those games will take.  Therefore, they are the last shift scheduled for those days and the Cadets, Junior Boys and Junior Girls Championships are being highlighted in prime time on some of those evenings.  What more could you ask?  They generally draw quite a bit of interest.  I expect they will again this year.

[Dick]

This post is mostly directed at Cobbler because there is so much incorrect, misleading or just plain false information in his post. After spending ALL of this past holiday weekend working on the World Tournament schedule and finding a place for 1268 entrants to pitch in just 9 days I must respond. I know I cannot make everyone happy but I try.

First of all there is no late shift the 1st week on that Thursday, Friday & Saturday because I am highlighting the Jr Championship Classes on Saturday when the Boys, Girls and Cadets Championships will be pitched. Yes the Cadets and the Girls will be done before an 8 PM shift but the Boys will be pitching 9 40 point games and that could go 5 hours or more. As past NHPA Junior Promotions Director I would think that you would be glad to see the Junior Championships highlighted on the last day of the first week. Yes I could have scheduled 3 classes to pitch on 24 courts that will not be used but most pitchers don't like to pitch when there is Championships being played. Yes all the courts will be open at 8 PM on Thursday & Friday but to use those courts those classes would have to pitch their 15 games in 2 days not 3 because not all the courts would be open on that Saturday night.

No one likes the 7 AM shift and no one likes the 8 PM shift but after making this schedule for 17 years I know that it is easier to get score keepers at 7 AM than it is at 10 o'clock at night. It is really a stab in the back to think this schedule is made up for the convenience of those that but in 2 weeks of their time to run this tournament. I myself spend 12 to 14 hours a day on site as do many of the other Officers and Directors. It for sure is no vacation for us.

This year we have 1268 entries. Over the past 4 years the entries were 1330, 1325, 986 & 907 so it is not fair to state the the entry numbers are declining. The total number of entries in any World Tournament is directly related to the number of NHPA members in the state that is hosting the tournament. Because IA has about half the members of what IL had in 2009 and PA had in 2008 I think they did very well to get 1268 entrants. Maybe we need to set a limit of 1,000 entrants then there would be no 7 AM shift and no 8 PM shift and everyone would be happy!

Most pitchers are scheduled to pitch 15 games. If every pitcher kept score for just 5 games we would never have a score keeping problem. Sign up sheets for score keeper are always posted 3 days in advance. So Cobbler how many games did you keep score? 5 10 15 or none? Maybe it works in Erie to find a group that will work a weekend tournament but for a 2 week tournament it is just not that easy. But I know Cedar Rapids is working on it. The day that a host comes up with 48 score keepers to cover the tournament from start to finish will be the day all that do keep score will really complain. The 1st week of the tournament we have very little problem with score keepers and the reason is simple. There are far more lower percentage pitchers willing to keep a few games of score the 1st week than there is the 2nd week when the higher percentage pitchers are there. That is just a fact.

So if anyone wants to do the World Tournament schedule next year please let me know. I may be more than willing to give it up. So Cobble will you be first in line?

Dick Hansen
NHPA Sec/Treas

[moshoe]

I second that! Dick

Let me be the first to say "Thank You" and to the rest of the executive board for your endless hours of dedication to our sport and specifically this tournament.

I can appreciate all you do, coming from one of the largest charters, as an officer for the past 23 years maintaining all the stats for 120+ tournaments a year and maintaining the charter web page, I know what goes into these jobs.

My observation has always been, the one's that complain the most are the one's that perform the least for our sport.

A message to them... "Until you walk in their shoes, don't question their motives."

A BIG THANK YOU! again to Dick for setting this tournament up over the holiday weekend while everyone else was probably out, BBQ, or at the lake spending time with family. This is his sacrifice to our sport, what was yours???

 

[jhnastn]

-- until you walk in a man's shoes -- don't judge, Even when you do , don't judge

[cobbler]

Oops, I guess I read the schedule wrong... I see it now, but in my defense, in the block schedule section, it is not very clear that the juniors are scheduled for Saturday evening, leaving just the two days for another class rather than the normal three days.  The way it's written, it looks like all three evenings are wide open.  

I'm not going to list my resume of involvement in the sport over my whole lifetime here, but I have set up many tournaments over the years, including state tournaments and the Eastern Nationals... certainly none of this size, though, and I am sorry for the dig on scheduling... out of line on my part... no doubt... please forgive the stupidity...  I definitely understand and appreciate all the effort that goes into planning something of this magnitude...  

Overall I don't have too many complaints.  But there's always room for improvement and I don't think it's a bad thing to discuss things like this here.  Maybe a good idea will come out of it.  I wish there was a way to make it into more of a spectator oriented event and it's disappointing to see prime time slots go to waste for any reason... The event is definitely player oriented and I'd like to see more effort to make it appealing to spectators.

Over the last few years, I have encountered many people who dislike the 7 AM start time, so I thought I'd say a little something about it here... Personally, it does not matter to me... I'll pitch any time of day or night.  I wasn't trying to offend or "judge" anyone... I was just trying to be a voice for those who have that concern.  Everyone understands that when you're cramming this into just two weeks, well, there are only so many hours in a day, right?  I get that... Most are afraid to say anything because they know it's a no win scenario... But maybe there are ways to do this that haven't been explored yet... I don't see how it hurts to think along those lines.

I disagree on scorekeepers, though... I believe a strong effort by someone, perhaps the local host, besides just posting sign up sheets, should be made in getting scorekeepers for this event.  The players pay $125 to get into this thing, including scorekeeping fees and to me, paying for a scorekeeper means that I'm paying for a scorekeeper dedicated to my game on my court, not sharing with two or three other courts... It's the World Horseshoe Tournament... need I say more on that?  I suppose the sign up sheets worked well in the past, but the last couple of years, they haven't, especially in week two... Is it asking too much to consider ways of improving this?

I am guessing that if I was the guy setting up the world tournament, half the people would probably hate me... I would probably do it different, but I doubt my way would be any better... Perhaps in twenty years or so, when I am retired and have the time to put into something like this, I will take a stab at it.  But certainly not until then... sorry... someone else will have to do the job until then.

[Tina Hawkins]

I can assure you that efforts are being made by NHPA officials as well as the local hosts to train and secure score keepers for this event.

Community organizations will be used, but we will NOT fill every chair with these groups, as many of our members depend on their score keeping earnings to help offset the expense of this trip.

If you know how to keep score, step out and take a chair when asked. If you do not know how to keep score – clinics will be offered throughout the 2010 World Tournament in Cedar Rapids to teach you.

Tina