Pitching a turn - How long before you see results

[rza49311]

I'm starting to question my grip and as to whether I'm gripping the shoe a little "high" as I'll call it   

I pitch with Cobra's and when I grip the shoe, my middle finger sits in the groove between the side of the shoe where it begins to curve towards the ringer breaker. The first joint up of my middle finger from the palm holds the weight of the shoe basically along with my thumb. Index, ring and pinky fingers just help balance the shoe in my hand.

Is this a somewhat normal grip or does that seem "high" on the shoe for a 1 & 1/4?

[gwhalen]

I'm no pro but seem to be advancing along pretty good.  When my concentration is right, and doing most things right, I'm  hitting close to 28% now, and I am the other one throwing the cobra's. I have been very pleased with these shoes at the price level.

I have read everything I can about the turn, and one thing some of the pro's have said is the right place to hold the shoe is the place where it arrives at the stake open. Some people even have to adjust the hold a little during a tournament. So if you are usually open at the stake it must be a good place, but I've heard it said, as you develop be prepared to shift the hold to where it develops.

On the NHPA web site there are two good books you can read. I've read and reread one, and the older book once.

[rza49311]

I changed my grip completely two days ago and I think I like it better. I have all four fingers wrapped around the shoe now with the index finger right in the curve where I previously had my middle finger. Feels like I have much more control of the shoe in the backswing and follow through. The shoe seems to be more level also when I pitch it right.

[jasper1]

 Sounds like you may have made a good choice. How do you do with alignment? I still struggle with this.
 My shoes are open when they get to the stake but I miss right or left. Whe I hit the stake consistently
 I tend to have very good games. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[rza49311]

I think my alignment is good. I miss more by not turning the shoe correctly or it being short. I'm trying to focus on two points right now, well kind of 3. The new grip(not too hard to focus on), turning the shoe so its open consistently and pitching 40'. I pitch a lot of good shoes that are 38' to 39'. Sometimes I feel like I'm really throwing the shoe hard to get it there and other times it feels like it takes little effort to get it there. I'm guessing its all in the backswing?

[Casey]

I I miss more by not turning the shoe correctly or it being short. 

Both these are because the shoe is not high enough.  Try putting a piece of string at the 20 foot line at about 9 feet high, then pitch over that. You can also put a 5 gallon bucket in front of the stake to improve your height.  Put the bucket about 3 feet in front of the stake. Lean toward the target stake with every pitch, using your knees to push-off will make the pitch seem effortless,

[gwhalen]

Casey can confirm this but I find my height of the starting point of the shoe has everthing to do with the back swing. This is a pendulum action you know. I make my focus on the stake with the shoe out front, then raise the shoe to the point that best compliments my backswing.  I have found that if I raise that shoe straight up in the air it puts enough backswing on it to throw that shoe about 60ft with no real effort.

I almost always seem to over throw the stake with the first few shoes, and remember to slow things down. To hit the stake I fell like I'm  throwing in slow motion.

I have even played with standing on the 37 ft line and still don't have a distance problem, but my alignment seems much better with a step.

[rza49311]

Casey, i have a piece of railroad tie that i mentioned before in the thread and i was using it early on but held off for a while based on comments here that it may be too early for me to use it. Now might be a good time to give it another try. I'll let you know how it goes!

gwhalen, you just confirmed something i was thinking to myself. I was noticing where i started the shoe was helping get the distance correct. thanks for the info!

[smokepole]

Both these are because the shoe is not high enough.  Try putting a piece of string at the 20 foot line at about 9 feet high, then pitch over that. You can also put a 5 gallon bucket in front of the stake to improve your height.  Put the bucket about 3 feet in front of the stake. Lean toward the target stake with every pitch, using your knees to push-off will make the pitch seem effortless,
[/quote]

I saw the string tip before, but I haven't been desperate enough to try it until last night.  I have been pitching so badly that I am willing to try anything.
It works.  I hit the string once last night and 4 times this morning.  If I clear the string and have it lined up, most are ringers, however as soon as I took the string down, my shoes came back down also.

[tnminority]

When placing the string you should remember that you are releasing the shoe from the 37 foot distance.  You would need to place the string at 21.5 ft for it to be centered from the release point to the far stake. Very important. Also, better than a string is to place a 8-10 ft pole to the side of the walkway and use a brightly colored sticker to mark the height.  The sticker can easily be moved up or down until you are pitching at the correct height for you personally.  

It is also very effective to drive a short stake about 6 inches from the regulation stake and leave it at 4 inches high.  This will help you get the shoe to the stake without throwing short.  When you start hitting the 4 inch stake, I guarantee that you will be encouraged to get the shoe higher.

[rza49311]

I tried the railroad tie for a while last night but it didn't seem to help. Then I tried the string technique and seemed to do a little better. I'm going to try it again tonight. I don't have a string actually just a rake standing straight up so i have to pitch at least 6' to get it over. I thought you wanted the shoe between 6'- 9'??

[gwhalen]

Will that Cobra warranty cover throwing them at rail iron?  Lmao.

[rza49311]

Its wood not a piece of railroad track 

[Casey]

It works.  I hit the string once last night and 4 times this morning.  If I clear the string and have it lined up, most are ringers, however as soon as I took the string down, my shoes came back down also.

Leave the string there as long as you need it.  Until you and your muscles get used to pitching that high.  Can't use it at the WT though so practice while you can.

[gummer62]

I have been pitching for over 35 years and am in the mid 30s. My favorite advise on missing left or right is to bring the left foot back a few inches behind the right foot, I am right handed. It was Ted Allen's advise to use the left foot back position to correct left or right movement.It will not cause you any problems in timing. When the left or right direction is corrected move the left foot forward a little at a time to get back to normal position. The back swing is so important. When the back swing peaks too high, the left foot will move at the same time, causing the shoe to be rushed forward and the body will rare and the shoe will either drop on the swing or the body will lunge and the shoe will go high. Back swing is important as is the grip. I have a nasty habit of re-griping the shoe half way through the back swing at the stall spot when the shoe becomes weightless and the fingers re-grip the shoe on the down swing at a different position causing loss of control on the shoe. I am currently using grip exercises to strengthen the fingers to try to maintain the consistent grip. When the fingers do not move the shoe goes on the peg. Anyone have any answers? I like M & Ms advise of getting the shoe to open and land flat, and then get right at the peg every time. My father threw a 2 and a 1/4 turn left handed but was always hitting the peg, so he scored points all the time. Another piece of advise is to always get the shoe to land in the point area. I have won so many games against men who threw low and hard, missing the peg a lot and winding back in the no point area or a dead show. By landing in the point area flat and getting all the extra points is a plus. Good luck, and keep up with the practice. Remember the great Curt Day would always practice at least 200 shoes a day to stay sharp.